Tell us about yourself and your shamanic work.
I came into shamanism through my interest in indigenous issues and the environmental struggle. In 1982 I took a course with the medicine man Rolling Thunder, and in 1983 with Michael Harner. From their impulses, I began, together with a group of like-minded people in the Yggdrasil network, to explore the shamanic dimensions of our own pre-Christian traditions. I started traveling in Sapmi in 1986 to seek out traditional healers, which was very instructive because there are so many connections between the Sami and the Nordic. In a strange way, my Sami studies also led to a deeper knowledge of shamanic rune magic, which is now my main focus. In an at least equally strange way, my Sami contacts and experiences led me to make several journeys to the southwestern USA and to intensively study the spiritual traditions of the Navajo. Another area of inspiration for me is quantum physics, and this actually has its origin in a conversation I had with Ailo Gaup in Oslo in 2003. I had been friends with Ailo since the late 1980s, visited him in Kautokeino, held a joint course with him in Jokkmokk, and even gave a course in rune magic in Oslo with Ailo as the organizer (1992). My first own books on shamanism came out in the 1980s, and since 2004 I publish most of them on my own imprint, norrshaman. The books on Sami shamanism and Navajo spirituality are published by h:ströms förlag in Umeå. I also hold courses in shamanism – nowadays always on the theme of "shamanic rune magic and sacred places" and nowadays only twice a year, preferably with proximity to sacred places. And for several different reasons, nowadays only in Sweden, where I also devote time to ceremonies at sacred places.
Do you have any visions or wishes for shamanism/old faith in Scandinavia?
My original visions concerned a wish that shamanism would be accepted and respected as a serious way of relating to the world and the spiritual. There I think a lot of positive things have happened, especially with regard to Sami culture. Shamanism can be an energy-giver and an inspiration in the struggle to defend and protect the Earth. I had hoped that the environmental struggle would gain a clearer spiritual grounding ("everything is ensouled"), but as far as the "old" environmental movements are concerned, they seem to be fairly stuck in a Western scientific paradigm. I look more hopefully at the new, fresh impulses that have found expression in, for example, Extinction Rebellion, Rights of Mother Earth, and Fridays for Future. There I see possibilities for shamanic approaches to contribute. But primarily I now believe that shamans' contribution to this struggle for the Earth should be magic, that is, to contribute through one's own ceremonies to protecting sacred places and to making it possible for spiritual forces to intervene in ordinary reality in the way they find best. I am speaking of a form of ceremonial activism that primarily works in the non-ordinary dimensions and that aims at direct contact with the cosmic web. Such ceremonies can very well, and perhaps preferably, be performed in the hidden, beneath the radar of power.
How do you think the spiritual cooperation between the various population groups was in pre-Christian times?
I do not know if we can speak of cooperation, perhaps rather of meetings. Not everything happened entirely without friction, after all. That it involved intense and numerous contacts, with creative impulses as well as conflicts, is quite clear, and much of this was mutually enriching. But it is important that we distinguish between these meetings among ordinary people and the meetings between the oppressive colonial powers and the indigenous peoples – which is something completely different...
What is needed to create a broader cooperation in Scandinavia today?
I see that people in Norway who devote themselves to shamanism are much more inclined to form organizations than is the case in Sweden. When we began working with shamanism in the early 1980s, we very consciously chose not to form an organization but a loosely held-together network. This network was, in fact, so loosely held together that during the 1990s it dissolved into its component parts, but I believe that our stance of working in a non-organization was fundamentally right. Shamanism is a very creative and dynamic tradition that does not lend itself easily to being organized. The risk is that a great deal of time and energy goes into the organization itself if one tries to organize. And there is, of course, a risk that shamanism becomes dogmatized. So I believe in more or less loose and temporary networks that form around and work with specific issues as they arise. I am thus in favor of cooperation, and gladly more cooperation, and what is needed for this is openness, humility, and respect for differences. Prestige and self-importance must be dethroned.
Which values from pre-Christian times are important in today's society?
That everything is one and connected. That everything has life and consciousness. That we are all part of a great cosmic web. That reciprocity is the foundation of all existence.
Why are these values important?
So that people, deeply and in their whole organism, may feel and know that they are part of everything else. It leads to a humble relationship to the rest of creation. We humans must walk upon Mother Earth with thoughtfulness and respect.
What do you think are the key values in creating greater understanding of shamanism/old faith today?
That the great problems that humanity and life on Earth face demand an entirely different way of thinking and relating on the part of human beings.
What view do you have of gods and goddesses in your faith? Are they distant from us humans, or are they close in daily life? Are they an everyday help, or is it more that one turns to them in great matters?
Gods and goddesses are metaphors and symbols for that which is beyond; that which we may call the unknowable. In a real sense they do not exist. What exists is energy, and when people have experienced energy, they have reinterpreted it into metaphors, symbols, and images. We do not need to do that today. I consider it quite simply a detour to work with the metaphors, and instead I want to work directly with the energy. What Castaneda called "experiencing energy directly." For me, the runes and sacred places fulfill this function. With them and on them I experience energy directly. It is on a deeper level than working with metaphors.
Shamanism is a modern word with many interpretations; what do you put into the word?
To cooperate with the energies that form the foundation of everything's existence, with the aim of contributing to balance in the great cosmic dance.
What is a ritual/a ceremony for you, and what are important elements to include?
A way of moving in balance with the cosmic energies. I strive for as flexible an approach as possible. How the ceremonies are designed depends on purpose, place, time, and what I can read of the energies at that moment. The most important element is to be in balance oneself and without self-importance, and that I am in harmony with the place where I do the ceremony. Then runes, drum, or rattle can function as aids. I must have permission from the place to do the ceremony there, and I must bring something to give thanks with. For my part, I most often use red ochre as thanks, but all kinds of things work fine, provided they are given from the heart, for example apples, grains, beer, schnapps, nuts.
What is the significance of rituals/ceremonies for us humans, and for the relationship between the human being and others?
I see ceremonies as something quite fundamental for finding a humble way of living on Earth with respect for all other beings and their interests. It is, of course, also about a way of interacting and conversing with what you call the spirit world and what I prefer to call the energy web. I see these as entirely necessary ingredients for abolishing the human being's existential alienation.
What is, or how is, your spiritual connection to the landscape around you? Do you experience the power as the same no matter where you are in the world, or is it stronger for you at your home place / in your own landscape?
All places are sacred, but some places are more sacred than others, as I usually say. The energies are concentrated at sacred places, and it is easier to experience this in a landscape where one feels at home. Like many others, I have favorite places that lie in my home region, but over the years I have also visited many sacred places in Sapmi, England, Germany, Ireland, Estonia, and the southwestern USA, and felt the power there. Best of all, of course, is if one has a local guide who can tell about the place's protocol or custom, that is, how the place wishes to be contacted, so that one does not barge in in an insensitive way but does so with respect and an open, listening attitude.
What do you think about shamans from other countries coming to Scandinavia and performing rituals, or conversely shamans from Scandinavia performing rituals in other countries? Is this unproblematic, or are there aspects of it that should be thought through? For example, that they/we do not know the land/the spirits here/there. Cultural appropriation and other aspects?
I myself would never do a shamanic ceremony in any other country unless I was invited to do so, and even in such a case I would be extremely careful not to break the rules of the place or the approaches of local spiritual traditions. This is, I suppose, also an answer to the question of what I think about shamans from other countries who perform ceremonies among us. If they do so without due respect and thoughtfulness, I regard them as "fake shamans."
Today's shamanism, and not least "core shamanism," draws inspiration from indigenous beliefs and traditions and is often accused of engaging in cultural appropriation. How can one avoid ending up in a situation where one is engaging in cultural appropriation?
This is a real problem, particularly for everyone who works with "core shamanism" and quite especially for those who live in areas where indigenous peoples have been murdered and driven out. The problem is thus greatest for neo-shamans in the USA. Should they try to adapt core shamanism to the spiritual traditions of their immigrant European ancestors – and is that even possible on this foreign ground – or should they respectfully try to approach the original Native American traditions? There they are sometimes highly unwelcome, so this is a dilemma, and the accusations of cultural appropriation are often justified. We who live in Scandinavia have it considerably easier to connect with our original Sami or Norse traditions. A present-day Sami who tries to adapt core shamanism to Sami tradition can hardly be accused of cultural appropriation. Nor can we non-Sami who connect with our own pre-Christian traditions. On the other hand, it happens all the time that we receive accusations that what we practice is not "the genuine article." That was the kind of thing Ailo Gaup also had to hear, at least to begin with. But such criticism proceeds from the idea that shamanism is a museum object that long ago froze into a fixed form. But shamans have always been spiritual innovators, and a Sami shaman of today can of course renew their own tradition. And the same goes for the rest of us Nordic people. It is pointless to try to recreate, for example, rune magic as it was practiced a thousand years ago. The world is different today, the cosmos has evolved and changed, and so too must rune magic and other shamanism – if it really wishes to play an active role in today's world.
Are there any other aspects of contemporary shamanism you would like to highlight or raise?
Ever since Eliade published Shamanism – Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy, many have unfortunately regarded shamanism as a collection of methods or techniques. That view was built on and reinforced by Harner's core shamanism. But shamanism is not a collection of methods – it is a way of thinking and living, and therefore it is important to go beyond the techniques themselves and dare to be innovative and creative. There I find that many who devote themselves to core shamanism are standing and stamping in the same spot, repeatedly experiencing the same sort of experiences with their "power animals" and non-ordinary shaman teachers. In fact, I believe that these dialogues with spiritual metaphors and symbols are fundamentally conversations one has with oneself. Core shamanists should raise their gaze and strive to go deeper – into the unknowable, or the nagual as Castaneda called it. Castaneda's 12 books about his years with the Mexican magician don Juan Matus contain infinitely more than core shamanism can offer and are, in my opinion, a considerably better source of inspiration than, for example, Harner's books.
What matter or matters occupy you right now?
Sacred places – to protect them and keep them active. This autumn, to publish my book about Castaneda: Oändlighetens aktiva sida – Castaneda och shamanismen (The Active Side of Infinity – Castaneda and Shamanism). It is a book I have researched for more than 30 years. Castaneda wrote 12 books of 250 pages each about don Juan Matus. My book about Castaneda is only 90 pages, in which I try to bring out the shamanic essence of his authorship and how those of us who work with shamanism today can use the magnificent wisdom that he has presented to the world. At the same time, I am working on continuous updates of my shamanic manuals: Sejd 6.0 and Runmagi och shamanism. All that is solid evaporates. Everything is in motion, and a shamanism worthy of the name must also develop and renew itself.
